The Hoax

Republicans will tell you global warming is a hoax. That it’s not true. It’s B.S. It’s phony.

All I’m saying—you damn well better be right …

Seriously, I beg Republicans to stop this. Do you have no children?

43 thoughts on “The Hoax”

  1. I have three kids, I’m far more worried about the 5 trillion the dems have hung around their necks since 2006 (when pelosi said “no new spending”) than something that has been happening for 4.5 billion years. Cap and trade will make Gore rich, and keep the rest of us in the same position we’re in now, fucked.

  2. I agree totally with Doug.
    The Republicans aren’t saying there is no global warming. The Earth is slightly hotter than it has been in a while. Republicans are saying that man had absolutely nothing to do with it, and scientists haven’t been able to prove that wrong. The few scientists who have insisted this was wrong were using data that was later proven to be fradulant and have gone to great lengths to silence those with alternate and differing views, which is a very unscientific way to conduct themselves.
    Seriously, Jeff, other planets are getting warmer as well. Did my SUV cause that too? Did my SUV cause the original Ice Age to end?
    Temperatures on earth have always been cyclical varied. What does our activity have to do with that?
    Don’t you have children, Jeff? I would hate to see their utility rates skyrocket and their whole economic way of life be completely destroyed by a flawed theory that mainly just serves to keep research grants funded, former Vice Presidents get movie deals and high speaking fees, and light bulbs sold.

    1. Brian, I read your posts and Doug’s posts and feel just terrible, because it’s so incredibly short-sighted. Again, maybe you’re right. Maybe. But I don’t want to take the chance that you’re not. I just am unwilling to do so. For my kids. For their kids.

    2. Oh, and who the fuck gives a shit about “utility rates skyrocketing”? I mean, seriously, have some perspective. You keep citing Al Gore, which is the typical Republican tactic, as if he’s the only person fearful of man-made global warming. It’s such a joke. “Utility rates”? Really?

  3. This is an argument is very similar, if not exactly like, agruing about religion with your friends, there are no winners, just bad feelings. I fall more to in line with Doug and Brian. We also have a responsibility to be good citizens and find balance, I just don’t believe I need to listen to Al Gore to find it!

    If we have found as much natural gas in the US as many believe it is time to convert all electricity to gas plants as fast as possible. All other alternatives are not economically feasible or viable stable alternatives. Otherwise we should go to nuclear and end all of the arguments which of course will not happen.

    We have bigger problems to solve in the US, like our budget and economy, this issue needs to be put out to pasture!

    Keep sharing your ideas Jeff you are a great writer with a fantastic perspective.

    1. Marty, that just strikes me as very … I don’t even know what. If the science is right, and it appears to be, what can possibly be more important than the destruction of much of our planet? The economy is man made. Jobs are man made. The planet—soooooooooooooooo much more.

  4. Once upon a time the Republicans supported cap and trade, or as it was known, “emission trading” or “allowance trading.”
    The idea was embraced by the first President Bush.
    Thanks the support of Geo. H.W. Bush it was a key component of the 1990 Clean Air Act.

    Gore wasn’t responsible for Cap and Trade.

    It really gets me that if the democrats support a Republican ideal the Republicans will flip flop then try to use the ideal against the Dems.
    Sort of like the “Obama” health plan…based on Republican ideas.

    David Brooks, a conservative who writes for the NY Times:

    “An oppositional mentality set in: if the liberals worried about global warming, it was necessary to regard it as a hoax. If The New York Times editorial page worried about waterboarding, then the code of conservative correctness required one to think it O.K.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/22/opinion/22brooks.html
    His column points out how once upon a time there was no animosity. Now conservatives have tightening their ranks demanding “purity tests” to decide if someone is a true conservative.

    In my opinion I think much of the confrontation can be placed at the feet of the conservative talking heads such as Coulter, Limbaugh, or Beck.

  5. Conservatives aren’t the only ones who have expressed concerns about what this legislation would do to utility rates, Jeff…..

    1. brian, i don’t care what party expresses the concern—it should be dwarfed by the concern of what we’re doing to this planet. Dwarfed. It’s so pathetic and short-sighted, makes me think we’re all a bunch of 6th graders concerned solely about what’s for lunch. for friggin’ sakes, i have TWO kids. I do NOT want them having to deal with the consequences of a severely ill planet. you think it’s a hoax? fine. but you don’t know—and in the absence of certainty, i say we MUST proceed as if it’s 100% real and take all steps to avoid the catastrophe. you probably won’t have a fire burn down your house–but you still have smoke detectors.

  6. Most of your arguments are not based on knowledge you have obtained, but sound bites you are parroting.

    What our country needs is a paradigm shift away from BOTH parties.

    How about cutting defense spending by 90% as a start? That should free up some money for our kids. That and getting rid of the combustion engine. Oh, wait, those are the power brokers that run the show, can’t change them.

    Turtle

    PS If you listen to and believe the scientific or moral views of Rush or Beck, you too are a moron. I regularly use Rush Limbaugh transcripts in my science classes to point out why learning basic science is important. The man is an idiot.

  7. BTW Doug,

    The Republicans are the party of increased spending and are more guilty of hanging debt around kids’ necks. Do the research, don’t listen to the rhetoric.

    Many conservatives hope if they fight expensive wars, crank up military spending and reduce taxes they will “starve the beast” that is the federal government’s social programs. To hell with the 46 million in poverty, the education of the next generation, etc…

    The rich get richer and they sucker enough undereducated products of the public education system to vote for them that they keep the pendulum swinging back.

  8. Brian,

    Your understanding of basic global climate research seems flawed.

    Please reference some of your sources as I would love to share credible alternative viewpoints with my students.

    Please don’t cite “The Great Global Warming Swindle” as one of your sources as I’ve already researched that film and watched enough to know that it puts Gore’s propaganda piece to shame in terms of overstatements and outright fabrications.

  9. Turtle, what parts of “The Great Global Warming Swindle” are outright fabrications? I’d like to hear about those. What facts do you use to make this determination? Meanwhile, tear into this http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/ .
    Also, the two budget deficits brought by the dems the last two years have been close to 1.5 trillion. We need to cut spending and find ways to boost the economy, cap and trade will not do that.

  10. Actually Doug, the budget deficits the past 2 years were brought on by the Great Recession that started under GW’s watch.

    Are you like the Wall Street Bankers who are bashing Obama and the financial bailout despite the fact that it saved their jobs and prevented economic collapse.

    Kinda like global warming, now that I think of it. People that ACTUALLY ACT and avert a crisis will get ridiculed years down the road since it “didn’t get as bad as everyone was saying”.

    Maybe you think we should let the banks and the Earth fail. I’m starting to think so. Survival of the fittest (or death of the stupidest). But then again, most climate change deniers don’t believe in evolution either.

  11. As for junkscience.com, most of what I read so far looks good and I agree with completely. Remember, I called an Inconvenient Truth a propaganda piece.

    The crux of the matter is climate change, NOT necessarily temperature. From junkscience:

    “The global mean temperature over which there has been so much obsession is only one part of climate (for example, how wet or dry the climate happens to be is probably of far greater significance than a simple mean temperature). In fact it’s not even clear that a global mean temperature is a particularly useful metric. Nonetheless Earth’s apparent temperature is the cause of great angst at present so it will remain the focus of this document for that reason alone.”

    I wish they would focus on climate change, NOT global warming. Global warming is just a symptom of a greater debacle.

  12. As for the swindle movie, look at wikipedia for a taste of how bad it is. Look further with the links if you care to. If you think that movie is good and valid, we should probably agree that we will never agree and stop now.

  13. Other than two points that were wrong (the graph and the volcano issue) most of the movie seems to be on the mark. The critics say it’s wrong, but don’t offer much in the way of facts to dispute it. I’ve already read most of the “debunking” stuff out there, and it seems to dwell on the graph. My point is we need to fix our economy, whoever is to blame, spending more and further handcuffing recovery seems crazy since this threat is not clear at all.

  14. So, Jeff, you think it’s a good idea, in a bad economy, to lose 1.5 trillion dollars based on a theory that you’re not sure it’s true, just in case??!

  15. Doug,
    I’m not a scientist. Either side could throw out their numbers and I would have a great deal of difficulty discerning what it all means.
    What I do have is logic.
    When watching the “Swindle” movie I feel like I am being swindled.
    On the information, that I can measure, too much truth is being stretched.

    Dr. Roy Spencer says, “Climate scientists need there to be a problem in order to get funding.”
    This rings false with me.
    These scientists have the education to get better paying jobs. I’m willing to bet the Oil industry would pay quite a bit if they changed sides.
    As I looked into Dr. Spencer I found he is a member of the George C. Marshall Institute. Which gets funding from (SHOCK) the Oil Industry.
    When you think about who has the most to lose in this it isn’t scientists that can earn as much or more elsewhere, it is Big Oil and Big Coal.

    James Shikwati “Economist and Author” says, “there’s somebody keen to kill the African dream. And the African dream is to develop.”
    As I looked into James Shikwati I found he is a self taught Economist. He has a B.ED (Bachelor of Education) in Arts. A High School teacher.
    The idea is presented that the world is keeping Africa from using oil to develop.
    BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    A Kenyon medical hut is used to show what a problem this is.
    Kenya has no oil. NONE.
    Their only hope is solar.
    Africa is a continent, it is not a singular country.
    Here is an excellent map to put the size of Africa in perspective.
    http://twitpic.com/2xu4ou/full
    The idea that Libya, or anyone else, should just give Kenya oil is absurd.
    The movie is truth stretching this to the point that I would call it an outright lie. A real swindle.

  16. jmw, Kenya has no KNOWN oil reserves, China is now coming to their rescue to actually look. http://allafrica.com/stories/200910281032.html
    Solar and wind is expensive and unreliable.
    Your claims about Dr. Roy Spencer are at least debatable.
    http://www.drroyspencer.com/about/
    You don’t need to be a scientist to figure this out, you just need logic. To say that deniers are driven by big oil and the environmentalists have no agenda is absurd. They think we are all unworthy of using earths resources.

    1. Doug, first off, this country’s economic status was going waaaaay downhill well before any efforts to transition toward green technology. It starts primarily with the trade imbalance, which I’m not sure is fixable (unless we start having American workers get paid 10 cents an hour). Second, why can’t America lead the way in this area? Why wan’t we have a New Deal-esque move to green technology and green advancements? Do you actually think we’re gonna regain our status by sticking with coal? With oil? It’s ludicrous, and narrow. I know you don’t agree, but there’s a golden opportunity here. Yet too many politicians have framed this as Go Green vs. Economy Tanking. And the majority of those politicians accept enormous donations from big oil/big coal/etc.

      And, if push came to shove, I’d of course prefer our country go bankrupt than have the world melt away.

  17. The world has been warmer than it is now, we’ve never been this screwed from an economic standpoint. The economic situation is more dire, in my opinion.

  18. Doug, you are really going to use Dr. Roy’s own website as a source?

    Not surprisingly, he is an expert on not only refuting climate change, but also intelligent design.

    Like I said, if you think the Global Swindle movie is valid, you should listen to Rush to expand your scientific knowledge.

    BTW the world has been a LOT warmer and a LOT colder than now. 99% of species that ever existed on the Earth have also gone extinct, but no need to worry.

    FYI, my dad grew up in the Great Depression and is alive today. He told me things were worse then.

  19. Doug,
    China has been searching for oil, in Kenya, for several years.
    With all of today’s modern technology they have not found any.
    If they do that would be fine, but Shikwati’s moaning is nonsense. Nobody is denying them anything.
    The film tries to portray him as some kind of authority, which he is not. That is deception.
    Solar in Kenya would be VERY dependable. You are guaranteed full sun pretty much every day of the year.
    Even here in Oregon solar is a very viable source.
    Annually Kettle Foods creates 130,000 kilowatt hours of solar power at Salem, Ore.

  20. Doug,
    What I said about Spencer is he is a member of the The George Marshall Institute.
    http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/orgfactsheet.php?id=36
    The institute has received $840,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
    They also receive funding from the Earhart Foundation. Harry B. Earhart made his fortune with White Star Oil Company.
    More money comes from the Sarah Scaife Foundation, controlled by Richard Mellon Scaife heir to the Mellon banking, oil, and aluminum fortune.

    I am not convinced that the “Swindle” movie has any credibility at all. It smells like the swindle to me.

  21. I realize you guys aren’t impressed by facts and numbers, but here’s the first part of this link.
    http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

    Just how much of the “Greenhouse Effect” is caused by human activity?

    It is about 0.28%, if water vapor is taken into account– about 5.53%, if not.

    This point is so crucial to the debate over global warming that how water vapor is or isn’t factored into an analysis of Earth’s greenhouse gases makes the difference between describing a significant human contribution to the greenhouse effect, or a negligible one.

    Water vapor constitutes Earth’s most significant greenhouse gas, accounting for about 95% of Earth’s greenhouse effect (5). Interestingly, many “facts and figures’ regarding global warming completely ignore the powerful effects of water vapor in the greenhouse system, carelessly (perhaps, deliberately) overstating human impacts as much as 20-fold.

    Water vapor is 99.999% of natural origin. Other atmospheric greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), nitrous oxide (N2O), and miscellaneous other gases (CFC’s, etc.), are also mostly of natural origin (except for the latter, which is mostly anthropogenic).

    Human activites contribute slightly to greenhouse gas concentrations through farming, manufacturing, power generation, and transportation. However, these emissions are so dwarfed in comparison to emissions from natural sources we can do nothing about, that even the most costly efforts to limit human emissions would have a very small– perhaps undetectable– effect on global climate.

  22. Seems to me water vapor has decreased due to man destroying the rain forest.
    There is actually very little water vapor in the polar regions.

  23. I guess you weren’t kidding about not understanding all that science mumbo jumbo. I just hope you practice what you preach, is your thermostat set at 45 degrees?

    1. Doug, it’s funny you ask—I keep my thermostat, literary, off and use a space heater when we’re in the room.

      Furthermore, how come you never, ever, ever, ever, ever cite opposing views? You only cite research from those “scientists” who support your viewpoint. That’s a bit odd. I like Obama, but I slam him. I hate Palin, but I occasionally praise her. You ONLY take the gospel of one side, and it butchers any credibility you seek. If one listens to Doug, there is zero viability to those scientists who believe in climate change. They’re all frauds.

  24. You’ve praised Palin? I’ve endorsed gay marriage, legalizing drugs, and the need for welfare. I reject man made global warming, not climate change. i’m usually defending the opposing viewpoint here because you have many readers to simply go along with what you say. plus, it really sounds like I’m just trying to kiss your butt when I do. Unless I’m complimenting your kids, who frankly, seem absolutely adorable.
    (see what I mean about the ass kissing) sounds disingenuous.

  25. Jeff,

    I have a long-time (over 30 years) friend who is has a Phd doing Ag-Engineering research at Kansas State for the past 22 years. He has looked at many of the studies for Bio-diesel, energy alternatives such as wind and ethanol for fuel additives or stretchers. He has even assisted in commercial development of bio waste to diesel development and production.

    Most energy alternatives are not economically feasible in his opinion.

    My friend does not believe that all of the climate science is valid. I believe him more than the media drum beaters because he has spent much of his life trying to solve energy and waste issues.

    I love the environment too. I have spent weeks in Alaska and hiked both there and in many Mountain areas of the US and Canada.

    Perhaps the earth and our solar system (sun) are changing in ways we do not understand.

    It does not excuse us from finding balance, recycling, and being conservative and reasonable with our resources.

    Wealth also should not allow us to think that because I can afford it, buying/owning homes that make Versailles seem small (See Thomas Friedman or Al Gore). It is appropriate to mention these names because these are the same people that have the pulpit to preach from each day!

    Thus it is for this issue, it seems who can yell the loudest. Thus my previous religion comment above.

    Natural gas, with our large reserves is the best, most reliable, clean answer, and it can power our cars and heat our homes at affordable prices.

    Find balance, be respectful of the environment and our earth and its resources and beauty (and I am not implying or suggesting that you do not).

    Blessings.

  26. Doug,
    Water vapor concentrations vary in different regions.
    There is very little water vapor in the arctic regions, yet the ice caps are melting. The factors causing warming of the arctic regions is not related to water vapor.
    Water vapor, AKA humidity, can range from a trace in a desert region to over 4% in some ocean areas.
    I live in the Northwest. Water vapor gives us a very temperate climate.
    Water vapor has always been there. The fact that man has contributed so little to greenhouse gasses (considering water vapor) should put you in an alarmed mode. So little has done so much damage.

    I am very fortunate that the local power companies are extremely diversified in Solar and Wind Power.
    http://www.eweb.org/resources_
    http://www.eweb.org/biomass
    http://www.eweb.org/resources/portfolio
    http://www.subutil.com/electric_service/where_power_comes_from

    Still I keep the thermostat down and heat the room I am in.
    I also am not a fan of oversize houses, I am single, my children are grown and gone, I no longer need a 2,000 sq. foot home. I downsized bigtime.

  27. jmw, Thats just it, I don’t think the tiny contribution has warmed anything. I think it’s that big red ball in the sky. I’m sure you know I like to debate this subject. I’ll have a look at your links above, take care, Doug

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